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    Hi all

    This is my first post on the forum! Here we go…

    Please take a look at and feel free to comment on any of the styling and user experiences. This site needs to work for a market of people that must be considered as technically inefficient :)

    Thank you in advance to anyone that is willing to take a look.



    Hi Atelierbram

    Thank you very much for your response. I am a complete rookie when it comes to design and the subtle changes you suggest really goes far. Is it possible for me to copy and paste what you did?

    Thanks again.


    Using letter-spacing and shadows on body text…what the?


    @Atelierbram I managed to get it pretty close to what you suggested. Thanks again for your effort. Can I reach you anywhere for freelance work?


    I take it that you are a man of principles

    It’s not about principles but simple logic (see below).

    Since the kerning of most fonts is based on dark on white text, then why not use some letter-spacing on ui-elements, for reasons I explained?

    You’re not talking about kerning but rather tracking on body text. Roboto itself is not a great UI typeface in general and using your methods (letter-spacing, word-spacing, shadow) proves that. It is essentially trying to cover up a problem rather than finding an adequate solution.

    Perhaps the solution would be to find a more suitable typeface.


    @chrisburton Which typeface would you suggest?


    Source Sans, Open Sans, Benton Sans or practically anything from the Webtype RE series.


    the tracking of most fonts is based on dark on white text

    Please elaborate.

    There’s no debate in which Roboto has improved but that does not mean it doesn’t have the same problem.


    Think about what you’re reading and then applying to text type on the web. I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on your ‘improvements’. It was nice chatting with you regardless.


    Any reason why you should never use letter-spacing to try to improve readability of type

    No. But you’re trying to back up what you consider improvements and or a solution with how FF Info (Display) was designed for signs. Display and text type are completely different (especially on the web). My point in my last comment was based on this.

    You come in with an attitude by giving this sloppy and snarky remark, and go out with an attitude by being, in my mind, quite arrogant, and I can’t say I enjoyed it.

    Quite the opposite. I think I was a bit shocked as to your recommendation to the OP regarding methods to try to improve the readability of text type with an already poor UI typeface. Trying to cover up the issue is not an adequate solution, in my opinion. That is all. Now, if you applied this to a display face or headline, I think we could agree with each other. It’s easy to misinterpret a mood or feeling when you can’t hear the person.


    When you read closer you will see that this is what I was telling you all along, but until just now you were ignoring this.

    You were? You certainly have a funny way of explaining things with continuous disagreement if you’re now saying the above. Not to mention, what’s with the hostility and name-calling? As I explained to you already, my words were not coming from arrogance or negativity, that actually seems to be coming from you. Do I disagree with you on using text-shadow and letter-spacing on body text? Absolutely because the problem was the typeface used (and most likely the font size contributed — I’d have to look back) and your method was covering up the main problem as I’ve mentioned before.

    So only just now you write:
    Now, if you applied this to a display face or headline, I think we could agree with each other.
    Trying to backup? Please look in the mirror; but congratulations, after all this back and forth, you finally and reluctantly admit to your initial misinterpretation of “what I was trying to say”.


    Was it because of this next line in my first post in this thread?
    (like so in CSS : p { letter-spacing: 1px )

    Nope. I actually saw your demo.

    You can hear him, @chriscoyier and Dan Mall talking about this subject here on the shoptalk podcast, and yes on 34:45 that is my question, and I also think Dan Mall “nailed” the answer. I could assume that you would disagree with him…

    Dave created lettering.js without UX in mind. Did you listen to the part where he’s now fixing this? Keep in mind that lettering.js was essentially made for Display or headline type and not kerning (or tracking) of body text.

    I’m done and moving on from this. You should too.


    @chrisburton and @Atelierbram Take it outside please guys :)

    Shouldn’t you guys be doing some web design rather than ranting and raving on this forum?

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