@Paulie_D is right about using border-bottom. As far as actual spacing is concerned, keep in mind that every element on a web page is a box. That said, each li you use is its own box, and so if you want to move one li from another one, i.e., one box from another box, you simply use margin. To specify a margin is to say that you want to add space between one element and another. On the other hand, to say you want to add space _within_ an element, you specify padding.