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March 24, 2011 at 8:42 am #54222
you said “if you’re concerned about status, get a mac”
If you buy a computer based on “status” then it is a self esteem issue and nothing to do with a software issue. If you are worried about your so called “status” then rock your design work and what ever profession you are in and your “status” will organically build like it should be….not built by what you bought.March 24, 2011 at 12:11 pm #53983
@springlab – there was actually a very interesting article recently, I can’t remember where (a shame), that discussed how the perception of your professionalism can greatly influence your ability to get new clients.
We are all aware of this already – we dress up for job interviews, we look to impress a crush, etc. We are constantly aware of our impression on other people and change into the person that we think we are supposed to be.
Macbook Pro, in this case, isn’t just a machine – it’s also a marketing tool in any discovery meeting. Whether people want to admit it or not, there is a sense of professionalism when it comes to owning Apple hardware. Whether it deserves that classification is a debate unto itself, but doesn’t change the fact that Average Joe looking for a new website is going to be impressed (and probably reassured) when you pull one out.March 24, 2011 at 1:05 pm #53990emmaParticipant
Very good point Doc. Appearance certainly has a big impact. Especially as clients normally don’t know much about the quality of your existing work beyond the design, until they have their own site where they experience all the ins and outs.March 25, 2011 at 1:33 am #53830Historical Forums UserParticipant
I’ve only read the last 6 comments, but from what I can tell this has turned into a ‘status’ debate. Personally, I’ve found that first meetings are best held without technology off the table. When a laptop is placed on the table, it places way too much focus on how the end-product should look. In web design/development, you’ll find that designers create systems, processes, and strategies first that eventually turn into an end product. Often, clients don’t know this – they want the end product, but don’t know what it takes to get there.
Anyways, web design and dev isn’t about technology, it’s about people. So place your focus on the people first. I recently read something that talked about tech startups and their greatest challenges. Their biggest challenge wasn’t in coding and developing the site/service, but was instead in marketing. (if you read this article also, please post link)
The status debate is ridiculous – clients aren’t hiring you because you have a Macbook. I love Apple products, but Apple products don’t create better work. Even companies with amazing brands (I used to work at corporate for a luxury retailer) base their businesses on objective and fundamental competencies. Show me objective data that indicates a correlation between ownership of Apple products and successful client relationships and I’ll invite you over to take a gander at my stable full of unicorns.March 25, 2011 at 1:55 am #53799
don’t need a mac for web design. save money, buy a pc!March 25, 2011 at 2:07 am #53801
Not a status debate at all – simply pointing out something that I thought was interesting.
@aaronsilber – I take a notebook and a pen to nearly every meeting. I find it especially important to do so in the discovery meeting.March 25, 2011 at 2:40 am #53851
“I think it’s less of a status thing and more of a “whole package” thing. Apple products in my experience allow someone to better leverage an already great presentation skillset. It gives a prospective client the feeling like this person knows what they are talking about”
This may be true yet is very unfortunate. I tip my hat to the Apple marketing department. I believe in no way that an Apple product is superior to any non-Apple product of the same caliber. They just have fancy enclosures.
Now – were somebody to come along, SONY, for instance – and start marketing PCs and Windows products wrapped up in sleek cases, people might begin to believe that PCs are on par with, if not better (subjective) than Macs.March 25, 2011 at 8:49 am #53768
WOW…this thread has taken a turn. Sorry for getting of subject @emma…buy what you feel is right and rock your code with it and the client wouldn’t care if you created it with a mac….pc…or carved it in a cave wall somewhere. The end product creates “status” not the shiny peace of hardware between you and the client.
@arronsilber …..well said and it is refreshing to hear someone finally put a emphasis on their work quality and not what they just bought in hopes to bolster their “high school status“March 25, 2011 at 11:58 am #53744jimsilvermanMember
@springlab – i didn’t mean to sound derogatory with the “status” comment. when you whip out a macbook, you’re instantly perceived as a serious design professional. can’t really get that same intangible effect from a thinkpad or dell, regardless of the computer’s physical qualities.
@everyone else – whoops. i didn’t mean to create so much controversy.March 25, 2011 at 1:16 pm #53670Historical Forums UserParticipant
@springlab – *high five, you get it!*
@jimsilverman – Sorry if that stung. It wasn’t meant to be personal; but I’m ‘passionate’ – generic, I know – about the web. -bro hug-
Here’s the rub; Professional designers often get miffed because clients often think things like, “Hey, don’t little John down at the Speedway have himself a copy of Photoshop? I’m pretty sure he could do us a mighty fine web-cite in no-time, and we’d only have to give him a couple coupons to CHUCK-E-CHEESE and this free laser keychain I picked up at that conference for douchebags we went to last weekend! DUR-HUR!”
This client-side logic problem makes designers whiny. “But whyyyyyyyyy don’t they just get it?! I demand respect because I understands grid systems, accessibility, and the finer points of web type. Photoshop doesn’t mean you understand the web, and it doesn’t make you a professional!”
Then, and this is what astonishes me, they (er, uhm, ‘we’) go down to our friendly local Apple store and wait in line for ‘status’ products. We then expect that these same status products will make us and our work more credible. Surely everyone can see the problem here. When this industry complains about joe-photoshop, but expects status products to bolster credibility, we’re contributing to the problem and are guilty of the same offense. The web community is so much better than this.
Does anyone really believe that a thousand years ago, in the sculptor community, everyone had a specific brand of chisel that brought along ‘status’ with it? Nope, it never happened. Industrialization started this, and American consumerism empowered this behavior.
The growing perception when a guy whips out a Macbook is, “uh-oh, this dude could be a douche-bag.”March 25, 2011 at 2:49 pm #53603jimsilvermanMember
@aaronsilber – didn’t sting, was just worried my point didn’t get across, which i’m still not sure it has.
i don’t think anyone could argue that a client would refuse to hire you based solely on what laptop you use.
Your choice of mac or pc sets several preconceptions about your skill and personality (proof: http://www.google.com/images?q=mac+vs+pc). obviously, this could be overcome by how you act and what you do, but first impressions can mean a hell of a lot.
which brings me back to the initial point i made days ago:
“if you’re concerned about status, get a mac.”
IF you’re going out to meet clients and do business with a pc, you’re potentially putting yourself at a disadvantage. society “knows” that creative professionals are supposed to use a mac, and you’ll have to prove otherwise.March 25, 2011 at 6:43 pm #53611
I think I’m being slightly misunderstood, so I’ll clarify just in case.
I was agreeing with @jimsilverman due to the fact that clients are an ignorant folk. Not stupid or slow, just ignorant. If I didn’t know anything about web design/development, I’m sure I’d hold the same opinion that somebody whipping out a shiny Macbook Pro simply new what they were doing with it.
Is that right? Fuck no, but its the world in which we live.
I would never expect my computer to have an effect on a prospective client’s perception of my abilities – I let my work do the talking for me. But I can’t control what a client might think when they, through whatever means, find out that I’m running on a Mac at home.March 25, 2011 at 6:55 pm #53612March 26, 2011 at 3:05 am #53561
difference is, a PC doesn’t make you look bad and repulsive. nasty clothes do.March 26, 2011 at 8:22 am #53562
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