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Don’t make me use tables boss!

  • # October 8, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    I just started a new job as a web designer. Today my boss said I should start using Dreamweaver and tables because table are faster than divs.

    He and I know that divs are a newer/better way of doing things than tables, but I don’t want to use tables!!!

    But should I surrender? Are tables better when production speed is important on a fairly simple site?

    Thanks,
    Aaron

    # October 8, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    Tables are only faster if that’s what you know how to use.

    Divs are extremely easy to use once you have a good knowledge of CSS.

    I would definitely take a stand. If my boss ever asked me to create a site using tables, I would tell him that there was no way I’d do it.

    Then again, if you’ve only just started the job, perhaps you should wait on taking a stand.

    # October 8, 2009 at 9:04 pm

    Just use CSS-Tables. It’s like using HTML tables without the children crying in the background.

    # October 8, 2009 at 10:51 pm
    "Matt" wrote:
    Just use CSS-Tables. It’s like using HTML tables without the children crying in the background.

    If you’re just going to use CSS-Tables, there’s really no point, might as well just use regular ol’ HTML tables at that point.

    # October 8, 2009 at 11:15 pm
    "TheDoc" wrote:
    "Matt" wrote:
    Just use CSS-Tables. It’s like using HTML tables without the children crying in the background.

    If you’re just going to use CSS-Tables, there’s really no point, might as well just use regular ol’ HTML tables at that point.

    Why? HTML tables are nowhere as accessible as CSS Tables. CSS Tables can do nearly the same as HTML, without affecting the markup. For a Section 508 buff, that’s a good thing.

    Rob
    # October 9, 2009 at 4:56 am

    beat your boss with a stick until he gets over himself.

    # October 9, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    similar question to the one about the close minded teacher, again, is it worth it from a job point
    of view to fight it? I guess only you can answer that. I think you have found out that as I said before
    he who pays the bills usually calls the tune, like it or not.

    besides it would certainly be a new learning opportuinty for me if I was forced to use tables, never learned
    to create websites that way and really would not want to do them that way either, but not sure how much
    of a fight I would put up.

    Al

    # October 9, 2009 at 12:51 pm

    Well, as with any job, the first thing you need to do is earn the right to be heard. The problem with just fighting it is depending on your boss’s attitude, he may perceive you to just be a trouble maker. Perceptions and reputations are VERY tough to alter, so be careful how you handle it.

    I too once had a boss who was very short minded – used CSS sparingly and demanded that everything be written in this ridiculous grid structure using tables. His company no longer exists :P But that didn’t change the fact that he made people do what he wanted.

    What I would probably do is go ahead and acquiesce, use the method he wants you to. In the meantime, get REALLY good with divs and keep improving your skills. Your goal is to give your boss the impression that not only are you a team player, but you’ve got ideas on how to do things better. Don’t forget also that if you work within a team structure, changing the model can trip others up too who are not used to the new method.

    Chances are, at some point in the future, they’ll slowly realize that divs are a superior design method. So you will want to be the guy who knows the most about moving through that transition and if you are well respected, you’ll be in a very good spot all around for your knowledge and capability.

    Rob
    # October 9, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    I love how no one actually objected to my stick idea lol

    # October 10, 2009 at 1:42 am

    Is it possible he’s testing you to see if you’ll speak up and stand for best practices?

    # October 10, 2009 at 9:10 am

    What a horrible situation to be in, I really don’t envy you..

    Possibly consult some of the other staff if there are any doing the same thing? Surely if you are being employed as a web developer you are there for your knowledge of the industry. Why your boss would have an opinion on how you develop is beyond me.

    I think anyone here can testify they can build a site faster with css/non tabled layouts than they can with tables in dreamweaver.

    on an off note, recently, I was trying to create a tabled layout for an email.. my god.. it was so hard. I for one if asked to do that simply couldn’t/wouldn’t. It’s another matter if your job is on the line and I really sympathise, but hell..

    If that’s the kind of development they do, perhaps you aren’t in the right place.

    # October 19, 2009 at 7:33 pm

    Tell him that inevitably the tables are going to make you go over-budget. Especially when it comes to maintaining the site in the future. Seriously, just mention the word "over-budget" and your boss will wet their pants.

    # October 21, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    I spoke with my other boss(his wife) about it. She said don’t mind him. That works for me.

    # October 25, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    tables can cause problems with being dynamic for other browsers and screen resolutions. This could cause users to become frustrated and choose to leave the site.

    I’ve found saying to that to a client scares the hell out of them and they leave me alone about it. lol.

    Besides if he wife aka "the other boss" says it’s ok, then let them duke it out.

    # October 25, 2009 at 11:34 pm
    "Robskiwarrior" wrote:
    I love how no one actually objected to my stick idea lol

    hard to argue with good clean logic

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