Hey guys. I've decided to move away from Wordpress on my personal site and switch to the NoDB CMS, Kirby. Has anyone else had experience with it and if so, what are your thoughts? I also don't mid reading opinions of those who haven't used it.
@TheDoc I really love Wordpress, to be honest. But, there are a lot of little things that I dislike. One of them being is that you need to add plugins for functionality. Such as custom fields or custom post types. And sometimes something simple that you need is only available from a large plugin that offers other things as well. I like to keep everything structured and organized (you should see the backend of my admin section). I would still use Wordpress for clients depending on the size of the project but I prefer how Kirby's folder/file is structured. Much more than that, I love how the development side of it works. You can use dropbox as a backup service and synchronization. So if you make changes or add new content, Dropbox backs it up but also produces it onto your site. And even though Kirby doesn't use a DB, you are able to incorporate one for things like a comment-form. I love how flexible it is. And for a personal site, it's perfect.
Update: One more thing, I absolutely hate that after you've deleted a plugin in Wordpress, the content stays in the database. I understand the reason for this but I absolutely dislike it.
@chrisburton - I've never heard of Kirby, it looks decent, though. And the points you've provided sounds like it could be a worthwhile switch, at least for your personal website.
@TheDoc One feature that you might particularly like is that you can develop entirely with markdown as it's built in. I'll let you know my thoughts once I get started.
@chrisburton I have also been thinking about checking this out. How difficult is it to get my file structure in there in working? Say I have scss files index.php and other .php pages.
It's much easier to learn how Kirby works than learning Wordpress for the first time. I think you'll also like the organization compared to Wordpress. Such as, with images they don't go in one folder that is structured by date (like Wordpress). They are organized with your posts. http://cloud.chrisburton.me/Luys
Your scss files will go in your css folder inside the assets folder.
kirby/assets/css/style.scss
What sort of PHP pages are we talking about? Are they from Wordpress?
I do agree with @chrisburton though. When it comes to added functionality, there are only a handful of plugins that hook into extending WordPress elegantly without bloat.
The biggest thing I like about Kirby is the Custom Post Types functionality without a plugin. And to call it onto your template you just do something like this <?php echo $page->cpt-name ?>.
I've been reading through the tutorials and what I can't quite figure out is what is the advantage of Kirby to just a static HTML site you just update yourself? It appears as though you work through an FTP program to manage files and images so it seems like the same effort as a static site.
Well, for one, Kirby is a dynamic CMS just like Wordpress but without all the bulk core structure that isn't necessary. Think of it as an extreme anorexic Wordpress structure. You also don't need a database to handle your content like Wordpress. For me, it has been able to do absolutely everything that Wordpress can do but much much simpler. Wordpress isn't that easy when you want to do something specific. You either have to download a plugin that offers more than what you want or you have to build it yourself.
You can use FTP or the Panel (what you see in those screenshots above). There is a bonus. You can install Dropbox onto your server so your files sync. This allows you to make changes in Dropbox and when those changes are made, it automatically syncs to your server. So basically it doubles as an FTP and a backup system.
@ chrisburton I think you'll have to help me out here.. once again. :-/ I've been reading these kirby docs and just not getting it. Mainly around the templates ect. My current project is not in wordpress at the moment, but broken up into section ie. doctype.php, header.php, footer.php then in my index.php imported like so <?php include("parts/doctype.php"); ?>. I then use different scss files imported into my "global.scss" file.
@wragen22 If you want to sign into GChat, I can help you quicker. Just message me and i'll hear the alert. If you're busy, let me know and I'll write it up for you.
Your structure makes a little sense. Here is what I do for Kirby.
I've just spent the last few hours playing with Kirby and it is fucking amazing (pardon my French). In that time I've converted my wordpress blog's templates to Kirby's framework, including appropriate snippets and two types of blog post template, set up a blog structure (two in fact, since I used to have two blog streams on wordpress too) and set up the sidebar using markdown.
Seriously, I reckon I could launch it now and have a fully functioning site.
I have never (NEVER) had a CMS that was so intuitive to understand. I'm looking forward to playing with extending functionality via plugins!
To contribute to the thread ;-)...
@wragen22 - where you currently use php includes, consider placing those files into Kirby's snippets directory. You can then call them in your templates using:
<?php snippet('file') ?>
It still keeps those re-usable elements separate and in one place, while not depending on a particular path.
The way I would view templates is this: The templates are what get called to fit your content. The name of the text files in your content directory determine the template used. If you have a template named after a text file, then that is called, otherwise the default template is used.
An illustration:
You have a folder called home with a file called home.txt inside it (probably). In your site/templates folder you have a template file called default.php. If you have no other template files, that will be called when you visit the homepage. If you create a copy of default.php and call it home.php, that will be called instead (but only for files called home.txt). Try it and edit home.php.
If you haven't used templates of any sort before, it might take a while to get used to what you're doing. However, I really wish I'd learnt those principles on a CMS like this rather than Wordpress, and I would urge you to persevere.
@BenWalker That's great to hear. I'm one of those people that hate to use new products without extensive research and reviews from others but this was too good to pass up. I'm pleased that others are seeing the benefit of switching to Kirby from Wordpress.
I checked out Kirby a few weeks back after @chrisburton mentioned it in another discussion. Looks neat. Straightforward, simple, I bet a lot of people will find it perfect. Seems it's a good balance for people who don't need a dead-simple "end user" interface, have some coding ability, and want to be able to easily "tweak" stuff.
I was talking with the author about a bug under php 5.4 where the markdown parser hangs. He said he figured out the problem and is fixin' it. Until then, I haven't been getting too deep into it, but I've been poking around and it's nice.
Bastian didn't say specifically, but he said Kirby's using an older version of the markdown parser (which he modified in some way) and it's "not compatible" with PHP 5.4.
I haven't been able to figure out what he might be referring to, so I thought I'd just wait and see what he comes out with.
@BenWalker Webfaction is the only shared host that I've found that allows this. I plan to move away from StableHost to them within the next month. Otherwise you need a Virtual or Dedicated Server.
Yeah, dropbox is a no-go. I don't want to switch hosts though (I really like them), and I can't afford to upgrade right now, so I'll stick to local writing and ftp uploading. C'est la vie.
Hey, I started working with Kirby too and I think it's super awesome. If you're looking for a good hoster for Kirby, Bastian has a list of hosting providers for Kirby on his page. And for the german web developers I can recommend Uberspace Hosting. They have a "pay-what-you-want" pricing model and you can even install dropbox and other services on your server. I use that to deploy my Kirby site.
@Flip Thanks. I did see that which is how I found Webfaction. How do you like using Kirby with Dropbox? I'm really anxious to test it out once I switch hosting companies. You can't beat an application that acts as an FTP and cloud backup service in one.
@chrisburton Working with Kirby and Dropbox is great. I can work locally and have everything synced to the server. And with mobile apps like "iA Writer" I can even blog and work on the site while on the go. The only problem I have with that is that it actually syncs in real time. When I work on a blogpost, it sometimes syncs the draft to the server because when I hit safe it syncs the file. So I recommend to pause dropbox when you work on bigger changes to the site and unpause it when finished, so that only the finished files get synced.
@Flip I didn't even think about pausing it. What I would do is use my text editor to write my blog. When I'm finished, I can just save it into Dropbox to avoid that issue.
Welp, I'm on board. This Kirby business is kinda great. The versatility! The options! I might be in love with it.
The panel interface I could see be being really user friendly with proper blueprints as well. Only gripe is I was unable to make a date field default to the current date on my blogarticle blueprint. But hey, setting it to MM-DD-YYYY it's that bad.
Can't wait til a project comes along I can use this for! Thanks for sharing this @chrisburton.
Wow, I just read through your posts and am completely intrigued! I had made it my mission to become a WordPress guru as I want to simplify stuff but after reading this, perhaps I'm going in the wrong direction.
Question about hosting, and maybe I just missed it, but is it that only certain hosts will host kirby?? Thanks chrisburton.
@Lexabi No problem. We were specifically talking about certain hosts that allow you to install Dropbox on your server. On the Kirby site, there is a list of hosting companies that it recommends but I believe that's just for Dropbox support.
@BenWalker honestly, I'm avoiding Kirby until that issue is fixed. Avoiding 5.4 is a bad plan.
Of course, I wouldn't expect it to be an issue. I doubt there are hosts anywhere that only offer php 5.4. Once Kirby is compatible, however, it's definitely a good idea to use most recent version of PHP.
If nothing you used required 5.4, why would it be preferable? Is it just a case of being future-proof?
Obviously there's no reason not to run it if you can, but given that isn't the case, why is it better to have the higher php version and sacrifice your software, rather than the other way around?
Hey guys. I've decided to move away from Wordpress on my personal site and switch to the NoDB CMS, Kirby. Has anyone else had experience with it and if so, what are your thoughts? I also don't mid reading opinions of those who haven't used it.
I'm intrigued by your decision! Any reason for the move?
@TheDoc I really love Wordpress, to be honest. But, there are a lot of little things that I dislike. One of them being is that you need to add plugins for functionality. Such as custom fields or custom post types. And sometimes something simple that you need is only available from a large plugin that offers other things as well. I like to keep everything structured and organized (you should see the backend of my admin section). I would still use Wordpress for clients depending on the size of the project but I prefer how Kirby's folder/file is structured. Much more than that, I love how the development side of it works. You can use dropbox as a backup service and synchronization. So if you make changes or add new content, Dropbox backs it up but also produces it onto your site. And even though Kirby doesn't use a DB, you are able to incorporate one for things like a comment-form. I love how flexible it is. And for a personal site, it's perfect.
Update: One more thing, I absolutely hate that after you've deleted a plugin in Wordpress, the content stays in the database. I understand the reason for this but I absolutely dislike it.
@chrisburton - I've never heard of Kirby, it looks decent, though. And the points you've provided sounds like it could be a worthwhile switch, at least for your personal website.
@Watson90 I'm definitely making the switch. I'm glad someone tweeted about this otherwise I would have never known about it.
It's very interesting, for sure. A unique concept by the looks of it, or at least I haven't seen anything really like it before.
@TheDoc One feature that you might particularly like is that you can develop entirely with markdown as it's built in. I'll let you know my thoughts once I get started.
@chrisburton I have also been thinking about checking this out. How difficult is it to get my file structure in there in working? Say I have scss files index.php and other .php pages.
@wragen22
It's much easier to learn how Kirby works than learning Wordpress for the first time. I think you'll also like the organization compared to Wordpress. Such as, with images they don't go in one folder that is structured by date (like Wordpress). They are organized with your posts. http://cloud.chrisburton.me/Luys
Your scss files will go in your css folder inside the assets folder.
kirby/assets/css/style.scssWhat sort of PHP pages are we talking about? Are they from Wordpress?
I just heard about Kirby and like the sound of it. Jessica Hische just relaunched her site with it. http://jessicahische.is/awesome
It sounds pretty awesome!
It sure is. Russ (her husband) introduced me to it.
Kirby does sound good, my only reservation is that we do sites for businesses and they likes them a CMS WYSIWYG editor.
The best alternative to Wordpress I've found is Perch, in terms of offering a proper CMS that's powerful but lightweight.
I would love to use Kirby on personal projects though.
@andy_unleash You could ask Bastian on how to incorporate one. But to my limited knowledge so far, you can basically have something like this: http://cloud.chrisburton.me/Lv5T
Hmm. My favourite CMS editor is Redactor.js - totes badass. I'll grab Kirby off Github and have a play - might be able to integrate it.
I do agree with @chrisburton though. When it comes to added functionality, there are only a handful of plugins that hook into extending WordPress elegantly without bloat.
The biggest thing I like about Kirby is the Custom Post Types functionality without a plugin. And to call it onto your template you just do something like this
<?php echo $page->cpt-name ?>.To create those custom post types, it's as easy as writing text. http://cloud.chrisburton.me/Lury
So for the custom post type 'description', I would write this in my template:
<?php echo $page->description ?>That is pretty sweet, custom queries are my number one bug bear with Wordpress.
Updated previous post.
I've been reading through the tutorials and what I can't quite figure out is what is the advantage of Kirby to just a static HTML site you just update yourself? It appears as though you work through an FTP program to manage files and images so it seems like the same effort as a static site.
Well, for one, Kirby is a dynamic CMS just like Wordpress but without all the bulk core structure that isn't necessary. Think of it as an extreme anorexic Wordpress structure. You also don't need a database to handle your content like Wordpress. For me, it has been able to do absolutely everything that Wordpress can do but much much simpler. Wordpress isn't that easy when you want to do something specific. You either have to download a plugin that offers more than what you want or you have to build it yourself.
You can use FTP or the Panel (what you see in those screenshots above). There is a bonus. You can install Dropbox onto your server so your files sync. This allows you to make changes in Dropbox and when those changes are made, it automatically syncs to your server. So basically it doubles as an FTP and a backup system.
@ chrisburton I think you'll have to help me out here.. once again. :-/ I've been reading these kirby docs and just not getting it. Mainly around the templates ect. My current project is not in wordpress at the moment, but broken up into section ie. doctype.php, header.php, footer.php then in my index.php imported like so <?php include("parts/doctype.php"); ?>. I then use different scss files imported into my "global.scss" file.
Thanks for the help here.
@wragen22 If you want to sign into GChat, I can help you quicker. Just message me and i'll hear the alert. If you're busy, let me know and I'll write it up for you.
Your structure makes a little sense. Here is what I do for Kirby.
And for my menu it looks like this:
I've just spent the last few hours playing with Kirby and it is fucking amazing (pardon my French). In that time I've converted my wordpress blog's templates to Kirby's framework, including appropriate snippets and two types of blog post template, set up a blog structure (two in fact, since I used to have two blog streams on wordpress too) and set up the sidebar using markdown.
Seriously, I reckon I could launch it now and have a fully functioning site.
I have never (NEVER) had a CMS that was so intuitive to understand. I'm looking forward to playing with extending functionality via plugins!
To contribute to the thread ;-)...
@wragen22 - where you currently use php includes, consider placing those files into Kirby's snippets directory. You can then call them in your templates using:
It still keeps those re-usable elements separate and in one place, while not depending on a particular path.
The way I would view templates is this: The templates are what get called to fit your content. The name of the text files in your content directory determine the template used. If you have a template named after a text file, then that is called, otherwise the default template is used.
An illustration:
You have a folder called home with a file called home.txt inside it (probably). In your site/templates folder you have a template file called default.php. If you have no other template files, that will be called when you visit the homepage. If you create a copy of default.php and call it home.php, that will be called instead (but only for files called home.txt). Try it and edit home.php.
If you haven't used templates of any sort before, it might take a while to get used to what you're doing. However, I really wish I'd learnt those principles on a CMS like this rather than Wordpress, and I would urge you to persevere.
@BenWalker That's great to hear. I'm one of those people that hate to use new products without extensive research and reviews from others but this was too good to pass up. I'm pleased that others are seeing the benefit of switching to Kirby from Wordpress.
I checked out Kirby a few weeks back after @chrisburton mentioned it in another discussion. Looks neat. Straightforward, simple, I bet a lot of people will find it perfect. Seems it's a good balance for people who don't need a dead-simple "end user" interface, have some coding ability, and want to be able to easily "tweak" stuff.
I was talking with the author about a bug under php 5.4 where the markdown parser hangs. He said he figured out the problem and is fixin' it. Until then, I haven't been getting too deep into it, but I've been poking around and it's nice.
I've been playing today, it's quite good. I think the panel is a must for client work though.
My aim is to see if I can get redactor.js running to help input content, that would definitely be the cherry on top.
@traq What was that bug you mentioned?
@andy_unleash If you check the blog on Kirby, there is a nice project management theme. You might be interested in it.
Let me know if you get redactor added somehow - that would be awesome!
Alright, dammit, I guess I'll have to try it out.
By the way, if you're a student, there's a discount on the license.
If anyone can get OpAuth working with Kirby for blog comments, I'd be thrilled!
@andy_unleash You might want to download Statamic since it uses redactor.js and is quite close to Kirby's structure.
Bastian didn't say specifically, but he said Kirby's using an older version of the markdown parser (which he modified in some way) and it's "not compatible" with PHP 5.4.
I haven't been able to figure out what he might be referring to, so I thought I'd just wait and see what he comes out with.
I contacted Bastian yesterday about this and he responded this morning with the code. I now have a license and the website is live :-)
http://furryphilosopher.walkerbox.co.uk
It's just so simple... I love it.
@BenWalker Looks great, Ben.
@BenWalker, love the clean and simple design plus how nicely responsive it is.
Edit: Add this to your html element to prevent horizontal jump if the content is taller then viewport height: overflow-y: scroll;
You know, I never really notice this, so never think to prevent it. Thanks for the pointer.
Now I've just got to hear back from my web host as to whether it's possible to get dropbox installed.
@BenWalker Webfaction is the only shared host that I've found that allows this. I plan to move away from StableHost to them within the next month. Otherwise you need a Virtual or Dedicated Server.
Yeah, dropbox is a no-go. I don't want to switch hosts though (I really like them), and I can't afford to upgrade right now, so I'll stick to local writing and ftp uploading. C'est la vie.
I like mine too but when they don't offer features you'd like, I won't stay. I might even try a VPS.
Hey, I started working with Kirby too and I think it's super awesome. If you're looking for a good hoster for Kirby, Bastian has a list of hosting providers for Kirby on his page. And for the german web developers I can recommend Uberspace Hosting. They have a "pay-what-you-want" pricing model and you can even install dropbox and other services on your server. I use that to deploy my Kirby site.
@Flip Thanks. I did see that which is how I found Webfaction. How do you like using Kirby with Dropbox? I'm really anxious to test it out once I switch hosting companies. You can't beat an application that acts as an FTP and cloud backup service in one.
@chrisburton Working with Kirby and Dropbox is great. I can work locally and have everything synced to the server. And with mobile apps like "iA Writer" I can even blog and work on the site while on the go. The only problem I have with that is that it actually syncs in real time. When I work on a blogpost, it sometimes syncs the draft to the server because when I hit safe it syncs the file. So I recommend to pause dropbox when you work on bigger changes to the site and unpause it when finished, so that only the finished files get synced.
@Flip I didn't even think about pausing it. What I would do is use my text editor to write my blog. When I'm finished, I can just save it into Dropbox to avoid that issue.
Welp, I'm on board. This Kirby business is kinda great. The versatility! The options! I might be in love with it.
The panel interface I could see be being really user friendly with proper blueprints as well. Only gripe is I was unable to make a date field default to the current date on my blogarticle blueprint. But hey, setting it to MM-DD-YYYY it's that bad.
Can't wait til a project comes along I can use this for! Thanks for sharing this @chrisburton.
@TheDark12 Hey, my pleasure and I can help you with that date problem. What exactly is the issue?
Set it to MM-DD-YYYY on the blueprint but when you echo it out in your template, you can alter that.
Edit: Oh, I see what you meant. Yes, it is annoying but hey, it works on the front-end.
Wow, I just read through your posts and am completely intrigued! I had made it my mission to become a WordPress guru as I want to simplify stuff but after reading this, perhaps I'm going in the wrong direction.
Question about hosting, and maybe I just missed it, but is it that only certain hosts will host kirby?? Thanks chrisburton.
@Lexabi No problem. We were specifically talking about certain hosts that allow you to install Dropbox on your server. On the Kirby site, there is a list of hosting companies that it recommends but I believe that's just for Dropbox support.
@Lexabi You should avoid hosts that only offer php 5.4. @traq says above that the markdown module doesn't work with 5.4.
My host doesn't provide dropbox support, but still runs kirby perfectly as they use php 5.3. I'm just sticking to FTP for the time being.
@BenWalker honestly, I'm avoiding Kirby until that issue is fixed. Avoiding 5.4 is a bad plan.
Of course, I wouldn't expect it to be an issue. I doubt there are hosts anywhere that only offer php 5.4. Once Kirby is compatible, however, it's definitely a good idea to use most recent version of PHP.
If nothing you used required 5.4, why would it be preferable? Is it just a case of being future-proof?
Obviously there's no reason not to run it if you can, but given that isn't the case, why is it better to have the higher php version and sacrifice your software, rather than the other way around?