Hello friends, I am a student and am really new to this web development and designing thing. But I am trying to learn as much as I can and thanks to Chris I have learned a lot in the past few days :). Given below is the link to my web site. As I am not very good at designing things :oops: , so I guess my site isn't that visually appealing like many of the inspirational sites I have seen out here. I have used JQuery [thanks to Chris for introducing it to me :P] to make all the different sections of my web page in one page itself. Hence, it takes a wee bit time to load in the starting, but once its done, I guess the browsing experience of the site is quite fast. I will try to optimize the images further and use the 'Lazy Load Plug in' to see if the page load time reduces considerably. One more problem which I am facing is that I have faded the text on my side bar a bit and because of that the text gets distorted for some people though it comes fine when I open the site from my place. Please, do take a look at the site and comment on it. I am sure suggestions and guidance from you guys can help me become a professional like you all.
I will hopefully be making more web pages with coming time. So instead of creating new posts for every web page I create, I thought of updating the links here itself so that you guys can comment and suggest improvements.. :)
Updates :- A Green Abstract Portfolio site. Its there in the services section of my site.
for your first time site, your doing good mate :) I like it - although i think some of the jQuery is over the top - assuming you are using "show" why not try "slideDown" - it might look sexyer - just a thought.
Yea, very good for just starting out. You will find yourself changing things here and there often as you continue to learn more about design elements, etc.
I just noticed off the bat, your glowing logo is ~10 px or so into the nav border. You also might want to mess around with the nav links padding... the last one is a little off and the others are too, but less noticable.
I would *definitely* suggest cleaning\optimizing those images... "noise" is only good when you mean to have it there, but I can tell that all your images aren't very sharp, etc, so its the way you're saving it I'm assuming. The thing is, yes, you want small load times... however, what you do display *must be good* and can not be sacrificed. Quality over quantity sort of thing.
Also, this is a personal opinion possibly, but the sliding speed is *super* fast that it's almost giving me whiplash. ;) For featured content, i tend to like soft transitions... Any animation in fact, is always more pleasing when its smooth and not... BAM! Atleast, that's my opinion. =)
Keep up the good work and welcome to our little community here at CSS-tricks =)
@ rob i will try out that slide feature today itself :P and even I am following you on twitter ;)
@milehigh- yes even i have noticed that padding problem and i could't figure out why its happening... it was fine when i started with the site but got messed somewhere in between.. :| i will fix it today.. and as for the animation when i reduce its speed it lags a bit in many browsers. Anyway, i will change the 'show' animation as rob suggested and try sum other animation which would look nice and be soft like u said :)
thanks runa :) Guys, I have changed all those things which you all pointed out to me :) List of changes :- 1>Changed the animation effect to something much smoother and softer to the eyes 2>Improved the typography [or at least tried to, you guys be the judge lol] 3>Fixed the navigation bar padding problem, which actually was a jpeg image problem :P I just changed it to PNG and it got resolved
Listing your price is generally a no-no, although I guess when it's this cheap that's what you're going for.
Price: Starting from $100 for a single page design.
Prices like that say to me "no quality". Granted, we all have to start somewhere, but that seems just far too low imo. It's prices like that that make clients balk when I give them a quote.
Listing your price is generally a no-no, although I guess when it's this cheap that's what you're going for.
Price: Starting from $100 for a single page design.
Prices like that say to me "no quality". Granted, we all have to start somewhere, but that seems just far too low imo. It's prices like that that make clients balk when I give them a quote.
oh is it that low.. I thought as am starting new I would keep low prices and then later on increase it slowly as i get more work and my port folio increases...Ok then i will just remove that price quote from my site :) hmm the price for psd to xhtml is ok? i have seen many people do that for $65. Is there any guide for "Freelancing for Beginners" ? :P
[quote="TheDoc"]Listing your price is generally a no-no, although I guess when it's this cheap that's what you're going for.
Price: Starting from $100 for a single page design.
Prices like that say to me "no quality". Granted, we all have to start somewhere, but that seems just far too low imo. It's prices like that that make clients balk when I give them a quote.
oh is it that low.. I thought as am starting new I would keep low prices and then later on increase it slowly as i get more work and my port folio increases...Ok then i will just remove that price quote from my site :) hmm the price for psd to xhtml is ok? i have seen many people do that for $65. Is there any guide for "Freelancing for Beginners" ? :P[/quote] http://freelanceswitch.com/
Pricing in this industry is tough, especially starting out. Some people don't know how to put a price on themselves, and the end up usually undercutting themselves.
If you have the skills, charge whatever you think is "fair". You will find people charge MANY different wages, and generally the more expensive it is, the better it is (that's how it should work anyways).
Exactly Doc... What he is saying is true. Try advertising on Craig's List... HAH! 9\10 "website design" links there are only affiliate links redirecting you to the same site... Not only that, once you get there, they flash in your face "Starting at 99 dollars!" Well, of course, I look into it... 100 dollars gave you a single page, no personal URL and you basically chose from 5 different, bad templates. Wanted e-commerce? well simply add 1000 dollars... want e-commerce that works? add 2000... how about a logo? add 200... want a logo that wasn't copy\pasted from another site and put your name on it? Add 500. I'm not even kidding.
I tell potentials about these kind of sites when they say "what about this site offering 100 dollars i saw on craig's list" I have even told one client that if he only has a budget of 100 dollars for his requested 10 page site, then he should save his 100 dollars and download a free template somewhere and do it himself. The quality would equal what you would get from one of these providers. Now, I'm not saying you are one of these providers... it's just that quality, like anything in life, comes with a price. You get what you pay for, yada yada.
I tell all potentials\current clients that quotes I give them are fair and realistic to what *i as a designer* am offering them... and to give them "starting prices" is just getting their hopes up. I could say "Websites starting at $1!" But that gets you this: "<head></head>" Anything beyond that is only +$1000 dollars per a feature!
Here's an idea... to start out, talk to friends and even their families if you are close with them. Don't be rigid, and consider them hiring you as being a favor. Create a few sites so you can build a portfolio, then you can charge normal pricing. Also, make 2-3 complete redesigns for them as your skills increase. This way *everything* in your portfolio is of your best and most recent quality. This will take time, and seem like you're making no money. Well, my dad went to school to be a doctor for 12 years and made nothing, so this is relatively better. ;) Now, as part of this agreement with your friends\family, is that you tell them to give you referals at any moment possible. I did this a while back and actually got several inquiries and one leading to a site that I am currently working on.
Lastly, I'll finish with this... Do your research. Not only so *you* know EXACTLY what you're talking about, but also to educate your potentials. If I was a car mechanic, I wouldn't ask someone to fix my car. So that means 99.9% people who contact you dont know how to make a good website. Maybe they can work with a template, but that doesn't count. I can also put on new wiper blades, but I'm not going to install a new engine in my car. So, once your ability and confidence increases, you can then explain to a client as to why it is this price. Not, "well hundred bucks sounds cool, right?" To be a freelancer, you must know every aspect of the business for what you're offering. Not only will this benefit your business, but also provide confidence to a potential client that they are paying you their hard earned money for something that you will work hard on.
Long post? Sorry... Just trying to provide some insight I suppose... take it or leave it! ;)
I have to second what these 2 wise guys have said.
By advertising prices so low, you kinda destroy the industry from within lol
For a recent job, I was able to charge exactly what I wanted - and the client thanked me... why? Because I gave them alot back.
When I get some interest in a job, I send out a questionnaire of about 12 questions - this answers some huge design questions, and helps me build a picture of what they will require. I then formulate those answers into about 500 words describing their idea back to them - this shows firstly that you have listened and you care, and secondly gives you the oprotunity to show them what they are thinking, in black and white.
actually - let me show you my design process.
My design process is as follows:
1. Design Brief: Conduct Questionnaire or Interview to get the design brief. 2. Research: Conduct research focused on the industry itself, on its history, and on its competitors. 3. Reference: Conduct research into designs that have been successful and current styles and trends that are related to the design brief. 4. Site mapping: design the functionality and usability of the site. 5. Sketching & Conceptualising: Develop the design concept(s) around the brief and research and mapping 6. Presentation: Present designs to the client. 7. Amendments: Make amendments where necessary 8. Create final Design: A fully polished Photoshop end product. 9. Coding & Filling: Slicing and building the site - adding content 10. Finish: Woohoo - bed time...
Notice how I dont go near photoshop for a good while...
this process is always up for review as well, with each project it will change a little, and mould itself to the best working practice I find.
I feel its very important to give your clients an idea of what is happenening behind the sceans, they then realise a little of how much work goes into making their website perfect, and suddenly your "overcharging" is actually very reasonable... It just takes effort.
Thanks guys for all the information about pricing and all.. @milehigh, lol its not a long post :D @rob, i really like your process of building a site..I would love to follow something like that :D I had no idea about all this.. i thought the cheaper i would charge the more the clients will get attracted :P I have removed the prices from the site :) 'MilehighDesigner' said that I should contact my friends, their families, but no one i know is that web savvy to have their own personal web site or a personal blog :| and no one has a commercial site because all are college students :P They all use social communities like facebook or orkut.. I am trying to increase my portfolio by learning how to design sites from the web and then convert them into web pages. That smiley site in my portfolio is the first site i designed from scratch [well other than my own site]. What could really help me is , I think, if I can get some psd mock ups and convert them into xhtml/css and add it to my portfolio... But I have no idea where to get them :? Good thing you guys pointed out about the price issue.. I was about to start a new post in the other section to ask everyone to contribute tips and suggestion for Beginners to freelancing. As in how to promote the site, how to get that very first client, what price to charge and all the things which could matter to a new comer :roll:
For practice I would get set up for themeforest and get some templates/themes produced, and then sell them. It will make you learn fast.
Freelancing is a strange game - "freelancer" websites are pretty pants, as most of the jobs are asking for someone to redesign their business' brand for a $50 maximum... and people ACTUALLY go for these jobs!
Thanks rob for the links, i will check them out right now.. we can sell our templates on those sites? lol i thought they have their own designers who design them :oops: silly me! Ok first of all i am gonna convert that smiley template which i created... hope i do justice to it :P
Robski's design process is great, and something you could pull from and tailor to what works best for *and works* the best...
You don't have to sit around until you get a client... Robski, again, had a great suggestion, which is trying to create templates for ThemeForest. Personally what I do, is create websites for mock businesses. I name them "Random Company" and then fill in a subtitle like "Photography by Random Guy" as if I was creating a site for a photographer.. Then, I create it with a feel a photographer might like. Some designs totally suck, and I close them after only a minute of messing with stuff, but some stuff is interesting and I use them in later designs. I have NEVER taken a messing around site, and just plugged in the new name for the potential. You see, I want to and create everything custom to their needs... if i said "I've got a site template all ready in photoshop for you!" it's defeating that purpose.
Another suggestion as Robski mentioned in his design process is doing research. Look at website design galleries... Look at every site possible, anywhere. Look at what's good, look at what's bad, and apply it in your design and coding. This does not mean copy verbatim... it means get inspired by something, and make it your own.
yea am doing research now... visiting many sites with great inspirational designs. I have also just converted one of the templates i designed into html. Please check that out too :) Its in my services section, or here is the link Smiley Site Now i will be starting on a new design hehe
thx rob :) its a very useful site to give me an idea of how much to charge... but to charge, i need clients! :D The thing at which i am strong [comparatively to my other designing skills] is converting a psd to xhtml/css. I am kinda weak in designing because I never learned anything in designing. But am trying my best to create some good designs and then convert them perfectly into xhtml/css for my portfolio.. I am also working on setting up for theme forest and sell templates there so that I can start earning some cash to invest in my freelancing. But i still don't have any idea where to get the clients from :|
hey thanks for the link doc.. Chris's podcast were the best in teaching me! :D I will go through them though. I have improved a lot in converting psds to xhtml/css i think. The problem which I am facing is, how to get clients for psd to xhtml conversion. I am trying to design on my own and convert them into web pages to include in my portfolio. :|
My friend used to sell themes on sitepoint - he was aproched by a large company asking him to make quick templates for parked domains - about 50 sites I think... lets just say he made alot of money on that...
You have to get out there in the area you want to focus in. Write a useful blog always get hits... that kinda thing
I think the PSD -> HTML market is shrinking, really.
Most of the people that are designing are now also learning to simply code it themselves. We have a few designers at work (I'll include myself in that group), and we all know how to code. Granted, once we hit our HTML/CSS limit we hand it over to the developers... but we know how to design and code a functional website.
If I were you, I'd really start working on designing. Relying on other designers to give you work is tricky. You want clients that come to you for the whole package methinks.
Thanks rob for the link. That site is really helpful to me. Even I am working on a template to sell it on theme forest. That sitepoint site needs me to subscribe to it for selling templates :| The thing is that I am a student, and i have this weird aim of earning from scratch! :? I don't wanna take any financial help from my brother or my parents :oops: though they are always willing to help me out.. So lets see how my first self designed site [i.e. widout any tuts :P] comes out :| And obviously you guys are going to be the judge of that hehe
@TheDoc, yes I am working on my designing skills too.. I think i can merge my programming skills, which is my main strength, with my designing skills to create some very nice designs.. But I have to improve my designing skills first :D
Hey thanks lotusflower :) I always think that when we ask for help from friends, we are very much comfortable and relaxed knowing that the help would always come. There is always a guarantee that a true friend will help us in our time of need. Hence, I thought of this campaign to treat the client like a friend ;)
@ rob lol.. @ Argeaux - thanks buddy..The left value was -999 only :P and i think your screen size is bigger than mine :P, thats y its showing there.. whats ur screen size? anyway, i will rectify it right now :)
I am a student and am really new to this web development and designing thing. But I am trying to learn as much as I can and thanks to Chris I have learned a lot in the past few days :). Given below is the link to my web site. As I am not very good at designing things :oops: , so I guess my site isn't that visually appealing like many of the inspirational sites I have seen out here. I have used JQuery [thanks to Chris for introducing it to me :P] to make all the different sections of my web page in one page itself. Hence, it takes a wee bit time to load in the starting, but once its done, I guess the browsing experience of the site is quite fast. I will try to optimize the images further and use the 'Lazy Load Plug in' to see if the page load time reduces considerably. One more problem which I am facing is that I have faded the text on my side bar a bit and because of that the text gets distorted for some people though it comes fine when I open the site from my place. Please, do take a look at the site and comment on it. I am sure suggestions and guidance from you guys can help me become a professional like you all.
Thanks in Advance :D
Here is the Link:- http://www.code-pal.com/
I will hopefully be making more web pages with coming time. So instead of creating new posts for every web page I create, I thought of updating the links here itself so that you guys can comment and suggest improvements.. :)
Updates :-
A Green Abstract Portfolio site. Its there in the services section of my site.
Great start though - it dosnt load too slow :)
PS - following you on twitter ;)
I just noticed off the bat, your glowing logo is ~10 px or so into the nav border.
You also might want to mess around with the nav links padding... the last one is a little off and the others are too, but less noticable.
I would *definitely* suggest cleaning\optimizing those images... "noise" is only good when you mean to have it there, but I can tell that all your images aren't very sharp, etc, so its the way you're saving it I'm assuming. The thing is, yes, you want small load times... however, what you do display *must be good* and can not be sacrificed. Quality over quantity sort of thing.
Also, this is a personal opinion possibly, but the sliding speed is *super* fast that it's almost giving me whiplash. ;) For featured content, i tend to like soft transitions... Any animation in fact, is always more pleasing when its smooth and not... BAM! Atleast, that's my opinion. =)
Keep up the good work and welcome to our little community here at CSS-tricks =)
@ rob i will try out that slide feature today itself :P and even I am following you on twitter ;)
@milehigh- yes even i have noticed that padding problem and i could't figure out why its happening... it was fine when i started with the site but got messed somewhere in between.. :| i will fix it today.. and as for the animation when i reduce its speed it lags a bit in many browsers. Anyway, i will change the 'show' animation as rob suggested and try sum other animation which would look nice and be soft like u said :)
Guys, I have changed all those things which you all pointed out to me :)
List of changes :-
1>Changed the animation effect to something much smoother and softer to the eyes
2>Improved the typography [or at least tried to, you guys be the judge lol]
3>Fixed the navigation bar padding problem, which actually was a jpeg image problem :P I just changed it to PNG and it got resolved
:arrow: Check out the site
Prices like that say to me "no quality". Granted, we all have to start somewhere, but that seems just far too low imo. It's prices like that that make clients balk when I give them a quote.
oh is it that low.. I thought as am starting new I would keep low prices and then later on increase it slowly as i get more work and my port folio increases...Ok then i will just remove that price quote from my site :) hmm the price for psd to xhtml is ok? i have seen many people do that for $65. Is there any guide for "Freelancing for Beginners" ? :P
oh is it that low.. I thought as am starting new I would keep low prices and then later on increase it slowly as i get more work and my port folio increases...Ok then i will just remove that price quote from my site :) hmm the price for psd to xhtml is ok? i have seen many people do that for $65. Is there any guide for "Freelancing for Beginners" ? :P[/quote]
http://freelanceswitch.com/
Pricing in this industry is tough, especially starting out. Some people don't know how to put a price on themselves, and the end up usually undercutting themselves.
If you have the skills, charge whatever you think is "fair". You will find people charge MANY different wages, and generally the more expensive it is, the better it is (that's how it should work anyways).
I tell potentials about these kind of sites when they say "what about this site offering 100 dollars i saw on craig's list" I have even told one client that if he only has a budget of 100 dollars for his requested 10 page site, then he should save his 100 dollars and download a free template somewhere and do it himself. The quality would equal what you would get from one of these providers. Now, I'm not saying you are one of these providers... it's just that quality, like anything in life, comes with a price. You get what you pay for, yada yada.
I tell all potentials\current clients that quotes I give them are fair and realistic to what *i as a designer* am offering them... and to give them "starting prices" is just getting their hopes up. I could say "Websites starting at $1!" But that gets you this: "<head></head>" Anything beyond that is only +$1000 dollars per a feature!
Here's an idea... to start out, talk to friends and even their families if you are close with them. Don't be rigid, and consider them hiring you as being a favor. Create a few sites so you can build a portfolio, then you can charge normal pricing. Also, make 2-3 complete redesigns for them as your skills increase. This way *everything* in your portfolio is of your best and most recent quality. This will take time, and seem like you're making no money. Well, my dad went to school to be a doctor for 12 years and made nothing, so this is relatively better. ;) Now, as part of this agreement with your friends\family, is that you tell them to give you referals at any moment possible. I did this a while back and actually got several inquiries and one leading to a site that I am currently working on.
Lastly, I'll finish with this... Do your research. Not only so *you* know EXACTLY what you're talking about, but also to educate your potentials. If I was a car mechanic, I wouldn't ask someone to fix my car. So that means 99.9% people who contact you dont know how to make a good website. Maybe they can work with a template, but that doesn't count. I can also put on new wiper blades, but I'm not going to install a new engine in my car. So, once your ability and confidence increases, you can then explain to a client as to why it is this price. Not, "well hundred bucks sounds cool, right?" To be a freelancer, you must know every aspect of the business for what you're offering. Not only will this benefit your business, but also provide confidence to a potential client that they are paying you their hard earned money for something that you will work hard on.
Long post? Sorry... Just trying to provide some insight I suppose... take it or leave it! ;)
By advertising prices so low, you kinda destroy the industry from within lol
For a recent job, I was able to charge exactly what I wanted - and the client thanked me... why? Because I gave them alot back.
When I get some interest in a job, I send out a questionnaire of about 12 questions - this answers some huge design questions, and helps me build a picture of what they will require. I then formulate those answers into about 500 words describing their idea back to them - this shows firstly that you have listened and you care, and secondly gives you the oprotunity to show them what they are thinking, in black and white.
actually - let me show you my design process.
My design process is as follows:
1. Design Brief: Conduct Questionnaire or Interview to get the design brief.
2. Research: Conduct research focused on the industry itself, on its history, and on its competitors.
3. Reference: Conduct research into designs that have been successful and current styles and trends that are related to the design brief.
4. Site mapping: design the functionality and usability of the site.
5. Sketching & Conceptualising: Develop the design concept(s) around the brief and research and mapping
6. Presentation: Present designs to the client.
7. Amendments: Make amendments where necessary
8. Create final Design: A fully polished Photoshop end product.
9. Coding & Filling: Slicing and building the site - adding content
10. Finish: Woohoo - bed time...
Notice how I dont go near photoshop for a good while...
this process is always up for review as well, with each project it will change a little, and mould itself to the best working practice I find.
I feel its very important to give your clients an idea of what is happenening behind the sceans, they then realise a little of how much work goes into making their website perfect, and suddenly your "overcharging" is actually very reasonable... It just takes effort.
- I hope that helped a little...
@milehigh, lol its not a long post :D
@rob, i really like your process of building a site..I would love to follow something like that :D
I had no idea about all this.. i thought the cheaper i would charge the more the clients will get attracted :P
I have removed the prices from the site :)
'MilehighDesigner' said that I should contact my friends, their families, but no one i know is that web savvy to have their own personal web site or a personal blog :| and no one has a commercial site because all are college students :P They all use social communities like facebook or orkut.. I am trying to increase my portfolio by learning how to design sites from the web and then convert them into web pages. That smiley site in my portfolio is the first site i designed from scratch [well other than my own site]. What could really help me is , I think, if I can get some psd mock ups and convert them into xhtml/css and add it to my portfolio... But I have no idea where to get them :?
Good thing you guys pointed out about the price issue.. I was about to start a new post in the other section to ask everyone to contribute tips and suggestion for Beginners to freelancing. As in how to promote the site, how to get that very first client, what price to charge and all the things which could matter to a new comer :roll:
http://freelanceswitch.com/
For practice I would get set up for themeforest and get some templates/themes produced, and then sell them. It will make you learn fast.
Freelancing is a strange game - "freelancer" websites are pretty pants, as most of the jobs are asking for someone to redesign their business' brand for a $50 maximum... and people ACTUALLY go for these jobs!
Also have a look around here:
http://www.sitepoint.com/
and their attached "marketplace"
http://marketplace.sitepoint.com/
You don't have to sit around until you get a client... Robski, again, had a great suggestion, which is trying to create templates for ThemeForest. Personally what I do, is create websites for mock businesses. I name them "Random Company" and then fill in a subtitle like "Photography by Random Guy" as if I was creating a site for a photographer.. Then, I create it with a feel a photographer might like. Some designs totally suck, and I close them after only a minute of messing with stuff, but some stuff is interesting and I use them in later designs. I have NEVER taken a messing around site, and just plugged in the new name for the potential. You see, I want to and create everything custom to their needs... if i said "I've got a site template all ready in photoshop for you!" it's defeating that purpose.
Another suggestion as Robski mentioned in his design process is doing research. Look at website design galleries... Look at every site possible, anywhere. Look at what's good, look at what's bad, and apply it in your design and coding. This does not mean copy verbatim... it means get inspired by something, and make it your own.
Now i will be starting on a new design hehe
http://estimator.astuteo.com/
remeber that the average webdesigner charges about $55 an hour...
The thing at which i am strong [comparatively to my other designing skills] is converting a psd to xhtml/css. I am kinda weak in designing because I never learned anything in designing. But am trying my best to create some good designs and then convert them perfectly into xhtml/css for my portfolio.. I am also working on setting up for theme forest and sell templates there so that I can start earning some cash to invest in my freelancing. But i still don't have any idea where to get the clients from :|
http://blog.themeforest.net/resources/1 ... tutorials/
here is another good resouce link
http://freelancefolder.com/i-really-nee ... verything/
My friend used to sell themes on sitepoint - he was aproched by a large company asking him to make quick templates for parked domains - about 50 sites I think... lets just say he made alot of money on that...
You have to get out there in the area you want to focus in. Write a useful blog always get hits... that kinda thing
Most of the people that are designing are now also learning to simply code it themselves. We have a few designers at work (I'll include myself in that group), and we all know how to code. Granted, once we hit our HTML/CSS limit we hand it over to the developers... but we know how to design and code a functional website.
If I were you, I'd really start working on designing. Relying on other designers to give you work is tricky. You want clients that come to you for the whole package methinks.
@TheDoc, yes I am working on my designing skills too.. I think i can merge my programming skills, which is my main strength, with my designing skills to create some very nice designs.. But I have to improve my designing skills first :D
http://bayimg.com/image/canhkaabb.jpg
@ Argeaux - thanks buddy..The left value was -999 only :P and i think your screen size is bigger than mine :P, thats y its showing there.. whats ur screen size? anyway, i will rectify it right now :)
Green Abstract Portfolio